45 replies to this topic

[k1ller]

I've been thinking about the same but on the same planet. Religious nutjobs vs. scientists. I'm not sure about the outcome, having extinct species on one planet is an option.

Religious nutjobs? Do I smell racism?

There is no place for god on 21st century. It's strange that there is still need for superstitious beings.

I think the Bible does help a lot of people.

This might be true but it's also sad. Sad but true. That will change though.

And I didn't even say you have to be religious. Have any of you anti-bible folks even read a single chapter of a book similar to bible ?

What kind of books? In Finland as I guess in many other countries it's mandatory to read at least some parts of the Bible. However in Finland it's also mandatory to read Kalevala which has great stories too.

The Kalevala begins with the traditional Finnish creation myth, leading into stories of the creation of the earth, plants, creatures and the sky. The protagonists of the stories often have to accomplish feats that are unreasonable or impossible which they often fail to achieve leading to tragedy and humiliation.

It's equally possible to learn moralistic and ethical values from Kalevala as it is possible to learn them from the Bible. One is religious and another one isn't (anymore as it has become folklore).

Bible and other religions have lead to more problems than benefits. Having folklore such as Kalevala could very well replace the Bible and Quran and alike. J. R. R. Tolkien's Silmarillion is also a very good alternative for universal guide to how universe, people, gods, rivers, ethics, morals and such were created. People just don't go nuts over these books as they understand that they are fiction. Then again, it's possible to go nuts over fiction too because scientology seems to be based on some science fiction book.

Science makes you happy? I'm glad, but you know, same things don't make happy all people.

There's contrast to this. Religions make many people sad. How many people get sad over science (well I'm sure some get sad but that's why I call them nutjobs)? Science and religion can co-exist, it will just eventually lead to this: Universe can be explained by science. It doesn't mean god doesn't exist. It's just that the birth and existence of all can be explained by science.

[NekiNeznanec]

There's contrast to this. Religions make many people sad. How many people get sad over science (well I'm sure some get sad but that's why I call them nutjobs)? Science and religion can co-exist, it will just eventually lead to this: Universe can be explained by science. It doesn't mean god doesn't exist. It's just that the birth and existence of all can be explained by science.

True.

As for the books. I'm glad you mentioned Tolkien's great work. It's really an inspiration.It's similar to Bible in a way, leaving out God and it was made clear that it is fiction. Bible wasn't. Religious use of it is the biggest part of it, but it's not all there is too it (far from it), that's my point. And true is also that you can take moral cases out of your local myths too. Those are usually shorter and don't include enough various topics to use them as a day to day "guide" or "whatevercalled" book of advice and inspiration.

[k1ller]

And true is also that you can take moral cases out of your local myths too. Those are usually shorter and don't include enough various topics to use them as a day to day "guide" or "whatevercalled" book of advice and inspiration.

Not surprisingly Wikipedia has its own article about the ethics in Bible: http://en.wikipedia....cs_in_the_Bible Not so good ethics overall.

http://www.biblegateway.com/ - This is quite good site to find stuff from the Bible. Type in search words such as "wine", "beer", "end to the kingdom of israel", "blade", "fermented", "pig", "raisins", "for no reason". I'm not sure if anyone can read stuff like this without being amused :

Then he gave a loaf of bread, a cake of dates and a cake of raisins to each person in the whole crowd of Israelites, both men and women. And all the people went to their homes. A pack of raisins to everyone and off they go.

Edit 1:


Edit 2:
Note that it's not flagons of wine.

Edit 3:
They might have drank juice instead of wine.

Edit 4:
Did Jesus make wine or grape juice? Uhhuh, did Han shoot first?

[Ghost]

As for the books. I'm glad you mentioned Tolkien's great work. It's really an inspiration.It's similar to Bible in a way, leaving out God and it was made clear that it is fiction. Bible wasn't.

There is "creator" in Silmarillion. See http://en.wikipedia....ki/Eru_Ilúvatar . The stories are as fictious in both books. Bible wasn't made clear that it's fiction, I give you that.

[LemmingGrumpy]

"The Bible is a blueprint of in-group morality, complete with instructions for genocide, enslavement of out-groups, and world domination. But the Bible is not evil by virtue of its objectives or even its glorification of murder, cruelty, and rape. Many ancient works do that-The Iliad, the Icelandic Sagas, the tales of the ancient Syrians and the inscriptions of the ancient Mayans, for example. But no one is selling the Iliad as a foundation for morality. Therein lies the problem. The Bible is sold, and bought, as a guide to how people should live their lives. And it is, by far, the world's all-time best seller. But the effort to make the Bible a universal guide to morality is impossible, because although orally transmitted myths can make 180 degree turns across a series of generations and get away with claims to authority based on antiquity, distortions and selective dismissals of written myths can only, at best, fool most of the people most of the time."

"Love Thy Neighbor: The Evolution of In-Group Morality"
John Hartung, Skeptic, Vol. 3, No. 4, 1995
Get the paper (and more) there:
http://strugglesforexistence.com


An absolute must-read as a preliminary (foreplay? ) to any discussion about religion: "Tread softly, because you tread on my memes", in chapter 5 of "The God Delusion" from Richard Dawkins. His memetic theory of religion is totally convincing (at least for me).


And a final note about Tolkien: he himself referred to his work as "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work." It is thus interesting to see people come away from reading the book with moral beliefs that may contradict catholic ones, and similarly to see some ultra-catholic groups bash the book and the movies for being apostate.

[Gringo13]

The western mentality was sculped mostly by Bible, which according to the eastern philosophy is a "load of crap". because the bible does not support the idea of reincarnation has no problem with destroying everything and anything just so that they can satisfy their needs.

But for the reasons unknown to me the eastern philosophy is also "wrong".

This is because all of it is based on humans, science however isn't.

Every holy book is a dangerous weapon of mind-control. That is because it represents/contains "the absolute truth" and is always written in stories and there is where u can draw power to brainwash everyone that can't think for themselves.

If The Bible had never been put together, i would be able to teleport right now and slap you in the face.
The Bible satisfied the need for explanation therefor no one (almost) felt the need to ask questions the result was no scientific advancement.

There was talk about bible providing morals, well the old greeks didn't have the bible and it turned out quite well their technology level was extremely high. It is true that they killed weak babies, and were gay but that would change through time (not the gaynees i suppose), eventually the
philosophy would have taken care of that.

What did bible do? Millions of women were killed cos of witchcraft. Not to mention you were killed if u insisted that the Earth in not the center.

[k1ller]

[Zbang]

If there is a God it has to be a men...

[breezer]

If there is a God it has to be a men...

that's a good one

[k1ller]

http://www.spaceaval.../show-business/

[k1ller]

Blasphemy Day is celebrated on September 30 to coincide with the anniversary of the publication of satirical drawings of Muhammad in one of Denmark's newspapers, resulting in the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Blasphemy_Day

[k1ller]

Our guest researcher requires a personal assistant.
I can deal with disabled persons correctly.
Those lights are S-T-A-R-S!!! They are awful far away!

[k1ller]

At the end of your story I got the impression that the hero would be having more adventures in the future.
There has not been a next volume however. Have I been waiting in vain? Yours, a reader.
What is the address of the Bible's editing office?

[CC:)]

k1ller is deeply busy with theology topic, so he is not seen on servers any more

[CC:)]

@ k1ller, Hauska nähdä pitkästä aikaa! Joo

[k1ller]

In Finland people are resigning from the church in masses (pun intended ). There was a televised debate about gay rights. After that debate lots of people started resigning from the church.

News article in Slashdot: http://yro.slashdot....urch-In-Finland

Stats about resigning people: http://eroakirkosta....ic/ek-tilastot/

One image that explains it all: http://eroakirkosta....ot/lokakuut.png - lots of people are resigning.

[Zbang]

These days we see more and more how scientists are changing the genetic code of our planet not by invading the consumer market with GMO(genetically modified organism) food but also "releasing" in nature some of these live specimens.
Now I don't know what others may think of GMO but as for me I stay away from it as much as I possibly can.

Here we see Vatican stepping in to have a say into this matter GMO(God Move Over).
http://www.organicco...tican111303.cfm
also,
http://www.organicco...ticle_18561.cfm

[PHOENIX]

LoL this thread wont administrate to a result. ^^

[Zbang]

I wonder... Is the near death phenomenon experienced by some people scientifically explained?

[b00bs]

I wonder... Is the near death phenomenon experienced by some people scientifically explained?

Take some LSD, it is safer kind of "near death phenomenon"!