22 replies to this topic

[porov]

I think that's too much. I am very happy about setti 4, its a great server, only problem is that there are no regulars. I play on setti 1 mostly, sometimes on 4.

But this awp usage is really too much. I am not against 2 or 3 awps in a big team, but what happened yesterday is fucking unbelievable.

7 Freaking AWP in 10 man team!!!

7 AWP ! ! ! On dust 2.

We cant attack like this, its impossible, only thing you can do is camp. Unless you have a super smart team that can coordinate an attack with multiple smoke grenades and flashbangs, attacking a bombsite is nearly impossible.

Many online games have restrictions, in Wolfenstein for example. In that game most server allow only 2 or 3 or bazookas per team.

I believe we need a limitation on the number of awp per team.

[Sculder]

You want to destroy last good server. Play at setti 4.

[Midnite]

Yes, I like AWP and I agree with you.

2-3 AWPs per team could be the best solution.

[k1ller]

Weapon limitations don't make any sense. It's not built-in the game and it doesn't make any sense anyway.

1) Money limits what weapons you buy
2) If you have money you can buy any weapon you like

Now who would be given the privilege to buy AWP? Answer: the person who has binded "buy awp" in his configs? Correct. "It's not fair, it's not fair - I want AWP because <give any other reason>". Ok, so the person who has the fastest quick-buy-bind on the AWP doesn't get the AWP - so who would get it? The person who has the most AWP kills? The person with the most kills? The noobest player? WHO?!

Best option: anyone can buy weapon. When you go to war you don't tell your opponents that "you can only have 1 rifle and 1 pistol". The idea is to deal with what you have.

Servers which have weapon restrictions are crap because people who are noobs don't know how to deal with the situation.

Solutions:

1) Save money to buy AWP yourself
2) Change team
3) Camp

^All of the above are things which maybe 1% of all players know how to do. There are lots of idiots who always use all their money on some crap. There are players who always switch to the easier team = they are team whores. There are players who camp just to get a few frags and then die & lose all their existing weapons.

The last three bullet points are among the things that intelligent players develop in their playing style during countless hours of playing. It's an art to save money, get money by killing players, buying weapons, saving weapons, surviving to another round. Here's an example what an intelligent player might do in the given situation:

1. End of round: survive this round - save money
2. Start of round: just not enough money to buy AWP
3. Kill enemy: get kill money
4. Go to spawn: buy AWP
5. Kill enemies: win round / survive round
6. Start next round with an AWP

To perfect each of these points takes an average of 1 year for a player. To optimize the whole routine on all 1-6 points takes 6 years. At Setti there are handful of players who can casually do this. However there are thousands of players who call people implementing these tactics "noobs", "campers", "wtjs" or whatnot.

It's not necessary to perfect this playing style to get on #1 on Psychostats. However it's more fun to play with this kind of players who can adapt to all sorts of situations. Problem on most servers is that server admins think that it's somehow "unfair" that the opposing team is better.

At Setti we've had "mapratio" and "winratio" stats which I'm still hoping get released in Psychostats 4. Those stats clearly show how much players do "wtj" (winning team joining) and how much players actually make their team win.

Restricting weapons only shows that people can't adapt to a situation that is given. Dust2 is one of the most balanced maps so especially there shouldn't be any room for complaining. In de_dust for example wtj'ing on T-side would give a player much frags but at the same time it would increase the player's "wtj score" (team whoring score).

There are countless ways to fight against an AWP army - camping is one way BUT people who employ this tactic should know how to use it. Camping itself is nothing.

From my own point of view this is related to the thing that CT can buy defusal kit at any time on CT spawn. Some people consider it bad because it's then possible for T's too to spam nades at any time In my stats both spamming nades + buying defusal kit at any time will both be a benefit for me. As CT I can defuse bombs and as T I can defend bomb locations. These are not contradicting for me for my tactics. People who consider infinite buy time bad are players who can't adapt to the situation. Players who don't know how to play. However there are lots of player who know how to take advantage of the given config. That is great.

There is one quite good way to identify these "intelligent" players. Check Psychostats top-50 and see the K:D ratio. If a player is in the top-50 and has a low K:D ratio then it means that the player on average kills more important players than noobs. That is: the player does not value each kill as equal but some kills are more important than others. Obviously also players in the top-20 know how to play but they might just be ADHD kids who have too much time on their hands.

On current top-20 list these names pop up:
Rank Name K:D
7. b00bz 1.72
16. k1ller 1.62
17. Toble 1.65
20. Ghost 1.56
21. o² 1.79
24. breezer 1.57

There are many players who have K:D > 2.0 but have lower rank than these guys. So although these players don't get much frags they get important frags. For example if k1ller kills a player in the top-20 he gets lots of skill points. At the same time the player who was killed might be killing many noobs to get smaller amount of points for each kill. This is the sort of development that would be nice to see in the general tactics of players. At Setti #1 it has happened over the years and the overall quality is quite good.

[porov]

Nice lecture k1ller.

I agree with you about 'adapting' players. I could use an awp and camp too or try some other tactic, however this is not fun for me, why should I play a boring (IMHO) gameplay just because more than half of the enemy are camping awps, I would rather change server, and this is what happens mostly with me and other people.

These awp's limit our playing style. I like rushing with smg, somebody else likes rushing with shotgun, other likes to attack step by step with rifle and etc.

So when server is full with only awp, many people are forced to camp and/or use awp/sniper. I think that its just not nice to be forced to change your playing style just because the noobs on the other team can only camp with awp.

And don't forget this is not a clan war server. It is so easy to set up positions with awp and wait for the enemy, however its 10 times harder to rush an area full of awp campers, only way to do that is with great teamplay, but on pub server this rarely happens.

[k1ller]

It is so easy to set up positions with awp and wait for the enemy, however its 10 times harder to rush an area full of awp campers, only way to do that is with great teamplay, but on pub server this rarely happens.

Good teamplay in practice means 2-4 players, it doesn't requires for whole team to work as a whole.

The camping tactics I told about works like this (this is my tactics): Your own team is losing hard. Opposing team just rush and kill everyone. Then you must hide, wait for time to run out. It is very common that the next round opponents will rush blindly the same way as they did the last round. Then you can just wait at some good hidden spot (<- many players have difficulties to understand how to remain hidden, it requires patience) and kill 4-5 enemies on a single round. If rest of the team can manage 4-5 kills too then it's likely to be 2vs2 or 3vs3 for the end-game.

End-game is the situation which practically means which team gets the bonus money for winning the round. When you win the round for your team -> your teammates get money -> it is easier for your team to win -> you are more likely to be in the winning team -> you made your team win.

[shaines]

Nice lecture k1ller.

I agree with you about 'adapting' players. I could use an awp and camp too or try some other tactic, however this is not fun for me, why should I play a boring (IMHO) gameplay just because more than half of the enemy are camping awps, I would rather change server, and this is what happens mostly with me and other people.

These awp's limit our playing style. I like rushing with smg, somebody else likes rushing with shotgun, other likes to attack step by step with rifle and etc.

So when server is full with only awp, many people are forced to camp and/or use awp/sniper. I think that its just not nice to be forced to change your playing style just because the noobs on the other team can only camp with awp.

And don't forget this is not a clan war server. It is so easy to set up positions with awp and wait for the enemy, however its 10 times harder to rush an area full of awp campers, only way to do that is with great teamplay, but on pub server this rarely happens.

You dont need a team on a public server to kill a few AWPs in this situations...
Buy an AWP with saved money like k1ller said
or (just a simple example...i know it´s not the best but doable...don´t want to waste too much time on it, because atleast everyone can think about some tactics by playing and thinking about it.)
buy a weapon that you like (in your case buy your SMG). Then buy all grenades and simply smoke the way you´re propably going and throw flashes and HEs to the spots where you could see oponents. (Really only a very simple guide...)
And when you have a bit of a team then it´s good doable to kill'em all.

[k1ller]

The camping tactic I said differs quite much from "frag camping" tactics that some players use. Frag camping is something like waiting for terrorists to run away from bomb plant and kill them when they are fleeing. Your own team loses but you get personal frags.

People do that because the in-game stats make it seem important. Overall picture of importance is actually something like:

1) How much player chooses the easier side
2) How much they get frags there
3) How much they win the rounds they play

The important thing to notice is that players who might not have much frags might be very important players to gain wins for the team. Importance of a one player could be computed using values of 1) / 2) / 3) = Importance. Casual players however don't care and 50% of regular players don't understand. So it's difficult to enforce this kind of things.

For every map that has "easy side" (eg. de_dust as CT) there is always the "difficult side". The bullet point 1) above means that difficult side would weight more on a player if he played more the difficult side than the easier side. The 2) point follows from 1) so the kills weight only as much as the value on point 1) weights. Then the importance of the kills 3) follows from both of the points 1) and 2). All these 1), 2) and 3) can be computed individually and the "importance" is the combination of all the three values. It'd be even more informational to show on a 2-dimensional grid but it's not intuitive after that. Something like this: 2d-map. For example player could be "team whore - getting lots of frags" vs. "playing underdog - getting little frags".

[k1ller]

You dont need a team on a public server to kill a few AWPs in this situations...

I don't think this is true. If I play CT on de_dust it's 95% certain that Terrorist will lose. The idea is to win bomb place A. When A is won the rest of T team will fall back and camp. There is no chance after that.

In de_dust there are very few options. The only possible are:

1) Rush A faster than CT - there is the random chance that the one good player on CT doesn't get to A before you do

2) Camp - everyone waits few rounds. After that CT will start to rush and it's easier to kill them than them to kill T. Then T can get CT overpowered. In practice 90% of the time this leads to situation that T will do "frag camping" that I just posted about. Annoying thing is that even many regular players don't understand the difference between "tactical camping" and "frag camping". Tactical camping is very clear when experienced players do that. There's no guessing whether the player is just a noob or intentionally camping out of time + getting whatever frags & money he can get.

The counter-attack I would be afraid of would be something like:
1) Smoke
2) Flash
3) 4 players on A regardless of my flashes on the tunnel <- 99% players stop when they get flashed or hit by grenade = wrong!

[porov]

3) 4 players on A regardless of my flashes on the tunnel <- 99% players stop when they get flashed or hit by grenade = wrong!

Yea I hate that, when I am rushing with someone if he gets flashed or grenaded, he runs away.

I tell all my clan members to continue rushing regardless if wounded from grenade or flashed.

[shaines]

You dont need a team on a public server to kill a few AWPs in this situations...

I don't think this is true. If I play CT on de_dust it's 95% certain that Terrorist will lose.

Haven't said that you will win the round with it but (in my opinion) it's doable to kill a few AWPs when you're in a situation like porov discribed.

[k1ller]

You dont need a team on a public server to kill a few AWPs in this situations...

I don't think this is true. If I play CT on de_dust it's 95% certain that Terrorist will lose.

Haven't said that you will win the round with it but (in my opinion) it's doable to kill a few AWPs when you're in a situation like porov discribed.

That's the 5% http://css.setti.inf...tyle_emoticons/default/icon_razz.gif Advanced tactics (eg. camping, time-outing-a-round) will yield better results in the long run. Tables will turn.

[Zbang]

k1ller ~
This really surprising, not to give into porcov's demands since you usually do.

You want to destroy last good server. Play at setti 4.

It's already fucked and done!
I rarely play lately but when I do I see only low end and mediocre players on setti 1... less and less regulars.

[k1ller]

k1ller ~
This really surprising, not to give into porcov's demands since you usually do.

Did you mean: suggestions?

You want to destroy last good server. Play at setti 4.

It's already fucked and done!
I rarely play lately but when I do I see only low end and mediocre players on setti 1... less and less regulars.

You are welcome to fuck off as anyone else. If you need help PM me. One less regular then.

[porov]

k1ller ~
This really surprising, not to give into porcov's demands since you usually do.

You want to destroy last good server. Play at setti 4.

It's already fucked and done!
I rarely play lately but when I do I see only low end and mediocre players on setti 1... less and less regulars.

What is your problem man? Things are going just fine. Servers are full most of the time, there are plenty of regulars on 1. Stop talking bullshit.

[Blitzkrieg]

I've already been playin' against 7 awps, just like you, Porov. But the problem isn't that there exists no limit, the problem is the lack of balance sometimes. In a good balanced public "war", only the real good players get awp, because non-regular noobs usually don't have enough money, besides they save money (but those are mostly noobs who lose awp after 1 round). If one team is like 3 times better than the other team, after some rounds, the better team will have plenty of awps, 'cuz even noobs have the chance to buy it (more money for the team).
Adding a limit would "destroy" the game as it was created. The real problem is balance, but this is IMO normal in public matches. The lower team will automatically spawn camp after getting raped by the other team. And this is good, after around 5 rounds the game normally gets more balanced.

That's why I think it's good that Setti allows spawn camp, this also belongs to the game!
(OK, some admins punish spawn campers... xD)

My conclusion:

Leaving all be and changing nothing is the best "solution"
Greetings

Blitzkrieg

[b00bs]

Just remebered this shot

[Ohr]

[quote name='P.H.U.C' date='31 October 2010 - 05:04 AM' timestamp='1288487093' post='15448']
Hi guys,
In my last post , i talked about my breaks of playing CSS because i will move out for works,far away from my house. And lately i come back with a new name lowskillgun ,on Setti 3 and on Setti 1 playing with the low-performance laptop from workplace. Lol, i can't stop completely ...because i miss Setti
[quote]Unfortunately, it is a fact that many "regulars" that populate setti 1 nowadays (such as yourself) cannot hold a candle to the players above[/quote]
completely agree with you

Before, on Setti we dont need any restrictions (awp limits,anti-camping,no grenades...) because we all know how to do for a nice gameplay.

[quote]Annoying thing is that even many regular players don't understand the difference between "tactical camping" and "frag camping". Tactical camping is very clear when experienced players do that [/quote]
A nice example from the old days:

[/quote

clever mind, lol freak!!!