19 replies to this topic

[Ghost]

Picture & Video thread for Greece

Greece is almost bankrupt. Athens is in chaos.

Post here if you're from Greece and you have pictures!

Here's picture from news paper:


Do not post newspaper articles. Post your own pictures if you are in Greece!

[Mithrandir]

The today's episodes were inevitable! Who knows what next...

This is a live streaming from Athens:
LIVE NOW

[Marioc]

Maybe if we rush parliament?

[Ruppert]

i am not from greek but i want to share a photo from the german news :

[prpa]

Slovenia is close . I hardly wait.

[Marioc]

I go every day there. But when these things are happening I am leaving. I should take an awp.

[Marioc]

I am there with 2 of my friends.

[Marioc]

He only says "out of here", and then "dont hurt me" But look what the fkn shit does.

Oh and One self bust. Look who is doing all these. 4:40

[Mithrandir]

- What smells man?
- It's from the smoke grenades.NOOOOT!!!!!!!
(They are outside of the Hellenic parliament)

[Mystery Repeats]

- What smells man?
- It's from the smoke grenades.NOOOOT!!!!!!!
(They are outside of the Hellenic parliament)

AWESOME!

[Mithrandir]

look at the face of the third guy in a row while he is waiting for a pass!!!!

[fofo]

You greeks are retarded. You're only making things worst, violence brings violences you fucktards.

[Marioc]

You greeks are retarded. You're only making things worst, violence brings violences you fucktards.

Hello there. Oh thank you.

[k1ller]

[Zbang]

Yeah we know that northern EU countries suffer from superiority complex.



The sad thing is that EU thinks that by slapping austerity measures on Greece will actually pay in the long run.
To know what works and what doesn't in an volatile enviroment such as economy is like knowing where technology will be, or if we have a cure for cancer in 5 to 10 years.

All we hear now because of these solutions, is older people taking their own lifes so that their children don't have to pay for their debt.

[LemmingGrumpy]

Yeah we know that northern EU countries suffer from superiority complex.

Well, northern EU countries manage to collect taxes, maintain a proper cadaster, and so on and so forth. Greece cannot, that is a fact that even Greeks admit. They had committed to do those things when joining the EU, and they failed spectacularly, laughing all their way to the bank while cashing the checks from Germany, France, etc. for years and years. All that money that was intended for the development of the country into a modern democracy was entirely wasted.

Of course, "the people" of Greece did not all benefit equally. Many (probably most) were shafted in the process. However, a significant proportion of the population that is also crying foul today also tremendously benefited. It is called clientelism, and "the good people" of Greece were, and remain, perfectly fine with that.

That, my friend, is despicable, and does not earn greeks any sympathy, neither from the rest of those haughty northern european countries, nor from me.

So yes, some people in Greece work hard and cannot make ends meet any longer, but the issue is greek mismanagement of funds, not some sort of international conspiracy to "humiliate Greece". Sorry to beak the news to some people, but "we" the haughty have better things to do at the moment, like trying not to sink as low economically speaking.

As for our "superiority complex": the above paragraphs present some arguments that make it at least partially justified. Why would I believe that we are equal to the Greeks (in terms of economic and civil maturity) when all the facts indicate that we are not? Please try and separate pure prejudice from cold analysis of facts.

Finally, if you still want to talk about superiority complex, ask the Greeks what they think about Bulgarians and Turks... Greeks have certainly no moral high grounds on the matter. At best (for them), we are all as despicable and morally flawed as the other.

The sad thing is that EU thinks that by slapping austerity measures on Greece will actually pay in the long run.
To know what works and what doesn't in an volatile enviroment such as economy is like knowing where technology will be, or if we have a cure for cancer in 5 to 10 years.

Actually, there is a pretty good consensus that this is NOT going to work. The German-inspired rigor works well to power up an engine that is operationnal, over a sufficient period of time. Greece is broken, so it is unsustainable.

The only way that I see (but I am talking out of my ass because I am far from being an economist) is kicking Greece out of the Euro zone so that they return to the drachma and devaluate hard and fast. That worked for Argentina when they abandonned their commitment to maintain the exchange rate of their own currency with respect to the US dollar. However, a little-known fact about that manoeuver is that some people litterally STARVED TO DEATH at that time. That is something all the Greeks demonstrating against the EU may want to think about.

The other option (keeping Greece inside the Euro zone, trying to bail them out) is not viable because the greek system is structurally flawed, and bound to fail over and over again. Same results for the Greeks as the first option, except the rest of Europe goes down with them, and the US and China have a field day on our collective asses. Thanks Greece!

All we hear now because of these solutions, is older people taking their own lifes so that their children don't have to pay for their debt.

Too late. Their children will have to pay one way or another, and regardless of what the big bad EU does... Money just doesn't grow on trees. Please someone tell the Greeks.

[Mithrandir]

Lemming, I understand what are you talking about and partly you are right,but,I am afraid that your opinion is made only by what you see on media. There is a factor here that you missed. History!!
If you want to know how we greeks got at this point, you have to check the facts from the start.
When you have time please watch this documentary :

I am so sorry when I see the rest European people facing us with a cruel behavior. It is shame. They have become "robots".

[LemmingGrumpy]

Well, I looked at that crap. First of all, this is not information, this is straight up propaganda.

Note the use of the division "we" vs. "they" from the start (hardly a hallmark of investigative journalism). Whatever.

11m55s: "In contrast to the USA, where the federal government and the federal reserve system intervene to ameliorate inequalities among states, the Eurozone accentuates inequality." Sure, that is why so much money has been transferred from Germany, France, etc to Greece. Sure, these were loans, but at much better rates than anything you could find elsewhere. So, now, please tell me clearly if you think that we should have just GIVEN you that money? You know, because you are nice folks and we really don't need this money ourselves...

14m00s: whining that German people made sacrifices to improve their competitivity. How dare they! The real question is why did salaries in non-competitive countries (Greece among them) increase so much? Of course this documentary ignores that question. How convenient... Maybe because the authors have their answer: "we deserved it". For what, I have no clue, but many people seem to think that they "deserve" their good life, their iPad, their computers... They deserve all the shit that they consume so avidly. Go tell that to the Chineses, the Indians and even the Japaneses, and don't forget to ask them, with your most candid smile, why they don't do the same.

17m59: "The high levels of national borrowing in Greece relate to Greece's social and class structure". There you have it. Even the propaganda has to face it. Cue the stating of the obvious about INABILITY OF RAISING TAXES.

25m03: "They have a tragic impact on people's quality of life, and on their daily life even." No shit. Einstein just discovered that life is hard without money.

25m25: "Like in Argentina, the target was to save not the economy, but rather the banks and the big enterprises." And also maybe, just maybe, the idiot european bastards who accepted Greece into the Euro zone. Greece ceasing due payments would send the rest of EU economies in a brave new world of shit, just so you know... But of course, I don't think you give a rat's arse, waiting for you "magical night, like in Argentina"... We are, after all, the cause of all this (well, not really, but who cares when "magic" is on the menu?), so we can be sacrificied for you.

28m00: "the key thing is to align wages and productivity". I believe that, to the authors of this documentary, these are dirty, dirty words. Once again, go talk the Chineses, see what they think about YOUR salaries compared to THEIR productivity. One day you will have to wake up and smell the coffee: you cannot forever have both your iPad and free healthcare with a negative trade balance.

As for all the comparison to Ecuador: it is stupid, pure and simple. Ecuador has a source of revenues: oil. Greece has nothing. No oil, no other natural resource, no industry. Try to do the same as Ecuador under these conditions, and see what happens. How are you going to buy your cars, computers, medicine? Are you going to make them yourself? I don't think so. Like it or not, Greece needs to import too many things. Get out of the Euro, devaluate the drachma, and see what you can buy with what's left...

59m29s: "Germany protects the interests of (...) its export industry." Yep, that 's dirty. But once again, should Germany just give you the money? Really? I really want an answer to that question. Choose: take the money, or leave it on the table because you think you'll be better without it? I am sure your myriads of civil servants won't mind when they don't get their salary next month. Or in 2 or three months, whatever, you get the idea...


So yeah, I have learnt nothing watching this. It just reinforces my views that the Greeks (well, a certain number of them at least) are irresponsible crybabies that believe that the world owes them.

If that makes me a robot, whatever. Keep crying that the world hates you, and see what good it does.

[Mithrandir]

Mate is your opinion and I respect it. I can't change your mind.
My people did not even agreed with the the high loans after 2010. It is something that we can't stop. It's like a vicious circle you know!
Also you have to know that Greece is full of natural wealth such as oil,gold but we denied to exploit them. (i am sure that we will in few years, but under German control if you know what I mean).
The documentary is not propaganda. Is made by specialists and supported by *indepentant artists with out the support of media.

[tagcollector]

I agree with some of lemming's thoughts such as the clientism problem or collectin the taxes etc but i would like to point out some facts and give you guys some feed for thoughts

i dont think that greece's economy and system is so bad that cant work but i believe that the german solution of austirity is not good for greece. Our economy was and is based pretty much in money comnin from the state. even the private sector is mostly sellin services to people workin in public sector-its like a circle. So cuttin unnecessary expenses is sure good but if you dont throw some money in the market-so the circle can start- things are gettin seriously bad and you (as state) loose money cause of the GDP drop and unempoyment.
The taxes here are almost unbearable and raisin them leads to nothin cause people will just stop buying goods... I agree though that there is a problem with collectin taxes mostly from companies (small or big) and germans have helped with organizing the tax system over the past years and we actually seen some big bussnesman going to jail for debts wich is a good sign of progress.
But Germans economists sure know all this. So why they suggest all these measures?

take a look at this http://www.bloomberg...uote/GDBR10:IND . Germany's 10 year Bond rate was like 3.28% before a year and as long all this economic uncertainty and crisis keeps going germany is finding cheaper and cheaper money. look the rates at this time. its 1.74%. Euro serves as a deposit currecy in the form of bonds and as long as all other economys in europe are not that stable (look at portugal spain italy ireland poland and even the 2 biggest econmy of france) the rich bastards who want to invest their billions in a stable currecy they go for German bonds. So it easy and cheap money for the German gov why whould they want this to stop?!

I m sure that if there was the Eurobond none of this would have happened.(meaning that all EU countries have the same cost for money). The same problem and crisis had also occured in US when they adopted the same Dollar for all states. some states had + balance and some had - balance. How they solved it? they gave the spare money of one state to the others that had problems.
And again all these are known to the politicians, and of course we will see Eurobond in some time in future. And why we didnt adopt Eurobond from the begginin of EZ? Cause germany's politian didnt want to at THAT time.

As for DEPTOCRACY i do agree without seein the video. I agree with the term. After all its money that rulles nowdays not people.
take a look at this http://www.globalres...ext=va&aid=3482 and mostly at The dollar debt paradox wich talks about more global influence via debt.same goes for Eyro debt paradox.

Lastly look who holded the most of greeces bonds. It was France, Greek and German Banks witch were making high risk investments without fear just for quick profits. Going bunkrupt would not affect eurozone that much especially now after this PSI+ programm that the Central Europian Bank bought the bonds off the other banks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union
the above article shows some clues about the economys of Ez. greece is only 1.9% of Ez GDP and our debt is 40% internal dept and 60% external. So no need to thank us lemmin

I dont say that Greece does not have problems and its all down to politics
All those years we could see the bad things in our state but didnt care. We were happy with a 50-70 euro payrize and we only cared about ourselves. I hope this crysis would be the start of a better greece and a lesson to the young greeks and politicians to care about their nation rather than themselves