225 replies to this topic

[TeeHee]

@TeeHee, do you really believe in your BS? Back to dd2 map, everyone knows that at CT and T spawns there are AWPers, but anyways even random shots through wooden doors look different from what we have on demo with Syrin.

You asked someone to talk about it, and I did. Its a perfectly good explanation for it. If u look at it, he even misses his shot to the left slightly.

[CC:)]

@Zbang, lol nice!

[Al1]

Wallhackers give themselves away by their behavior which seems often illogical if not observed through a wallhack. Aimbot users are very hard to detect, as aimbots can set up their aiming to only subtly improve already existing natural skill, making it virtually indistinguishable from the aiming of a very good player.
Subtle aimbot users however give themselves away if enough time is spent to observe them - A cheater doesn't get tired, since he can pwn with half a brain and one eye, where as a pure player would require all his concentration. A killing spree, a phase in which even a mediocre player exhibits near godlike skill and dominates the entire server, usually leads to mental exhaustion within 5-15 minutes, depending on the amount of training of the player
.
Playing Counter-Strike is a lot like running. You can run extremely fast for just a few seconds to minutes, but no one can keep up that sort of speed run for half an hour, an hour, or even more. Experienced players learn how to manage their energies, and can play slow, relaxed, and successful for very long durations. While this seems to have been forgotten in the scene over the years of cheating, a better player doesn't always kill faster; instead, he can fight more relaxedly and thus play blunder-free for a longer time, and keep max pressure up for a longer time than a mediocre player. Training is vital not just because skill gets better, but because long term performance (over hours) improves greatly. Headshots, accurate aiming in general, is very exhaustive, and some experienced players in fact aim worse but shoot better, simply because of the way they position themselves (not to be confused with camping). A player that goes on a 2 hour killing spree, not by playing very relaxed on a complete newb server but instead dishing out constant headshots and other generally mouse-heavy activities can be safely considered a cheater.

Tactics vs Skill: Basically, any chump with a merely primitive understanding from the game can utilize a stealthy cheat to become the dominating player on a cheat-free server. But that does not make them any less chumps – look for typical signs of noobie-ness. The movement of an advanced player is a work of art, where newbies often appear clumsy and ineffective as they trust the ability of the aimbot/wallhack to protect them.
Knowing your own skill, knowing how humans work. Dying is very frustrating in Counter-Strike. If you can make a suspected cheater die repeatedly in especially frustrating ways (e.g. apruptely at the beginning of the round) and his aiming and his temper does not seem to change, it is likely a cheater, as this method is a surefire way of breaking the killing spree of a player and turn it into a losing spree. Cheaters however are not affected by this at all, it often makes them use their cheats more agressively.

Behavior: If the suspect either claims to be a pro gamer, or claims to have had sex with your mother, it is probably a cheater.
If you still don't know if the person is a cheater, he probably is. Get on with your life.

http://www.all-scien..._Counter-Strike

[IrGeNdJeMaNd-AUT]

God, this discussion is starting to annoy me a bit. @Syrinx, just make the damn live gameplay video!

[b00bs]

I could hear the ladder, that's why I instantly looked that way, why else should I, not even a wallhack could tell me someone's behind me, neither a radarhack on de_vertigo, where it would only tell me they are still at spawn. Unfortunately you can't hear it due to HornyBadger's "Fire in the hole". That's why I say "Enemy spotted" shortly after Orion came up.

That vertigo demo looks like wh or rh. Orion didn't made any sound there(radio sounds removed):



btw before you enter there you already "knew" that COMMspetz isnt there anymore.

[SyrinXeno]

Al1 can write English without mistakes? I don't think so, Mr. copy + paste. (http://www.fact-arch...a_public_server)
Besides, it's not very significant. I never said I'm a pro and my temper changes when I "die repeatedly in especially frustrating ways" (-> ragequit).

@Phoenix: As teehee already said, you can clearly hear them running, and I even mess up the prefiring. I don't know how this should prove anything.

@Irgendjemand: A video won't convince anybody. They will continue flaming and say "Ok, he turned his wh off for the video and now cheats again.".

@b00bs: How to check the demo without radio? I couldn't exactly tell because it's only what I thought to remember, but I definitely heard something. Did you remove any other sounds, because I can hear no jumping sounds in your youtube video, but when I try jumping exactly like Orion, there are normal jump-sounds. Could SourceTV not have captured it? How would a wh or rh in this situation even help me? Because Orion wasn't in sight while I was writing, and a rh would just tell me there are enemies at spawn (or camping below the ladder).
EDIT: Checked demo, you can hear Orion's flashlight like he wants someone to boost him, I always do the same when I ask someone to boost me, but I think I heard something else too. And about COMMspetz, I saw him retreat, and didn't bargain for someone on a pub server to stay there, especially after a nade. But I didn't know, that's why I rather carefully peaked in, ready to shoot him while he still trys to go down the ladder. In the end it's still hard to explain a match from some while ago, since I didn't know or think anything in that moment, there is no time for thinking, it's rather intuitional how I react.

[b00bs]

Yeah could be flashlight.

[LemmingGrumpy]

What I don't do? I checked the vertigo demo, where should I have checked a corner? I am very well acquainted both with the map and the players on pub#2, and if the last one was spotted on the radar somewhere else, why should I check some corners anymore?

You rush in the room after the one remaining T without checking left, whereas by your own admission you have heard only one ladder sound. At that stage, you thus know there could be more Ts in the room, yet you comfortably give chase... Oh yeah, and I love how you stay away from the line of sight of the advancing T downstairs. Probably lucky timing, right?

Also, still in vertigo, after your nade kill you don't check left properly. Oh, and you don't bother checking right after you engage, because as you know so well, there is never any T coming from there. Oh wait, yes there are... So much for being careful. I guess that with all the firing, the running, etc., you "heard" that there was only one T behind that wall, and none coming from the right. By the way, that last one could not be on your radar... Just sayin'...

Let's continue. 2:58, funny how you remember that you can be shot from that left-side window right at the moment when the model behind the wall leaves your field of view. Just lucky timing again...

In the video of the "Zbang incident" of cpl_I_dont_know_what, I love how you walk and "happen" to get walk out with the AK crosshair at head level on a crouching target at 0:09.


Don't get me started, this shit happens every single time you play. Like Zbang said, there are way too many inconsitencies in your gameplay.

When I play, I constantly look at both my radar and the deathnotice, I watch where who was killed by whom, so I can guess where one or many players will be going next, where I will meet them, where I can run safely or where I should sneak. That way I sometimes know, ok, only one enemy is left, and he killed blabla 20 seconds ago near that point, he probably tries to run to the bomber who died here or whatever, I should go there. When I'm dead, I also analyze the playstyle of any other regulars, and I adjust my playstyle depending on which server I play on, which regulars are on or even which players are still alive (i.e.: only a noob with 1-7 score is left alive? no sneaking necessary).

Genius. Like we don't all do that...

Now tell me, is this just your decision, because I play different than you do which to you looks "dodgy", so you ban me to be on the safe side and satisfy flamers like Marioc, or do truly all headadmins think I cheat?

I think you cheat. Is that clear enough for you? If another headadmin wants to remove your ban, I won't object, but you won't play at the same time as I do.

[SyrinXeno]

I said I heard the ladder, not one sound, and to be honest I can't remember every time I killed someone and how, so let me put it that way: I heard something. And after I killed Orion, I think I didn't even bargain for another enemy, but I saw him and he fled to the right. At that point, I knew someone was to the right or he went down, I threw a nade and checked to the right where the chance of meeting an enemy was higher than to the left, and after having peaked in already, I would have been shot in the back anyway, so turning to check the corner now would be futile. To be honest, I never encountered 3 enemies coming up the ladder, and in my opinion checking left in this situation would be just plain stupid. If you know someone is in there but you don't know where, it wouldn't be, but if you know someone is to the right, it would be.
You mean right after that when I look down? I shortly looked down to see if I can still see the one fleeing, but I didn't so I immediately went back, why should I stay there any longer?. Also you can see his hand, but I think it was the shortly looking down thing.

Concerning the nade kill: as I already said, I wasn't flashed, I killed the first and saw the 2nd run behind the corner, checking right again would be the better decision, since there already was a fight (another ct died there) and a third person there would have shot at him. I'm just trying to explain it, I didn't think that at this point, but I decided to look right, and I still think the chances in this situation for another enemy were higher to the right. After that the round was already over ... or did you mean another point? Post ticks to prevent misunderstandings.

How was it lucky timing, I didn't hit him. I managed several wallbangs on Setti already, why don't you complain about them?

I think you mean de_tuscan, and I'm not at head level of a crouching target, I'm somewhere in between both ... not because I want to have the shortest way in both cases and I know I would be faster to react, but because I'm not a world series pro, and I also do mistakes (I guess this one was caused because I was coming from a higher level than the next position an enemy could be at).

Neither Zbang nor you play a lot with me, how can you say something like that. How often have we played together, like 4 times?

I don't mean to offend you Lemming, but you said you have been playing CS:S for 5 or more years now ... I couldn't tell, because you simply don't play like that. I play this game for 1 year now, and I'm able to compete with most of you. It is sad that you can't trust me, but it's your decision.

Btw, quite fair of you: *DEAD* Lemming grrrrrrrrrumpy : i personnally believe he is dodgy
Lemming grrrrrrrrrumpy : although the videos are not completely convincing

[LemmingGrumpy]

.
Neither Zbang nor you play a lot with me, how can you say something like that. How often have we played together, like 4 times?

I don't mean to offend you Lemming, but you said you have been playing CS:S for 5 or more years now ... I couldn't tell, because you simply don't play like that. I play this game for 1 year now, and I'm able to compete with most of you.

Gooooood boy. You want a medal or something? As for your "I don't mean to offend", I would have noticed by now if I was supposed to turn pro some day. Seems like it won't happen.

Btw, quite fair of you: *DEAD* Lemming grrrrrrrrrumpy : i personnally believe he is dodgy
Lemming grrrrrrrrrumpy : although the videos are not completely convincing

Yep, I made my opinion of you based on a long series of WTF on top of those videos. We played quite a bit at the same time, don't try to deny it, and I have seen enough to make my opinion. I feel confident that sooner or later you'll make a mistake bigger than usual and you will be clearly caught. Till that time.

[Xarc]

Xarc, on 15 November 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

....................
I don't like youtube videos because they don't reflect the whole gameplay. I prefer demos from Setti.

I quote myself.
the second one from Al1 with that pre-fire it has something but again I want to watch the original demos not some youtube videos.
imgur ... fast loading and no ads.

Marioc posted
Posted 29 October 2011 - 01:56 PM
Our lovely SyrinXeno[AUT] and sigi ["SyrinXeno[AUT]" STEAM_0:1:41831212, "sigi" STEAM_0:1:41880715] are ghosting (propably via steam)
http://css.setti.inf...8-de_tuscan.dem

about ghosting ... players do only suppositions because they don't have tools on their hands like a full admin have (I suppose)
in this demo it is something fishy 50% with that pre fire ( tick 61500 ) but if he had the headphones turned loud maybe he heard steps from pavement (because in that area only there is pavement) ... when you are tense your senses are amplified.
at 97500 he look where a supposed opponent can hide (see tick 93000) but he is not 100% sure that he will find one ... see his hesitation of firing action .

[Zbang]

I think you cheat. Is that clear enough for you? If another headadmin wants to remove your ban, I won't object, but you won't play at the same time as I do.

Man I love the smell of justice in the morning !

[GR Mavro]

Ban the motherfuckerrrr

[IrGeNdJeMaNd-AUT]

Like i said, it's time for a live gameplay video with stats like 54-6

[Marioc]

@Xarc, have you ever heard about smart wallhackers ?

[Marioc]

Hey guys,

a lot of cheaters are reported in the "ban request forum", but sadly you only get the bad cheaters, who are not able to hide their wallhacks, radars and so on. I know that, because I cheated too: 100 hrs on Pub #4, ranked 2/387; I used WH, Radar, Health Bar, Fullbrightmode all the time.

The problem is that you nearly can't detect a wallhacker, if he's a good actor and uses the advantages in addition to some "obvious fails". I.e. if I kill 5 enemies in a row, I now they are watching me, so I run past a camper, get killed and everything is plausible. It is possible to reduce your reaction time to a minimum, because you know somebody is going to pop up around a corner, although you won’t start aiming before you can see him, like some bad wallhacker would.

A good cheater uses the additional information and has to betray his audience.

Consequently an honest player can't detect a good cheater. But a cheater sees if someone else is cheating. And I see many cheaters who are able to hide their hacks quite well, sometimes it’s just about the decision, where to go and kill wounded players. After some time on a server, you will gain respect for your skill (if you don’t get banned too early) and you achieve a good reputation. After that criticism will be cut off:

Marcellostyle : shady are you sure that snoopl doesn't have wh?
shady: yes
Twintip Steeze : im shure too
Marcellostyle : ok

During the last weeks there were far too many good cheaters on pub#4, no competent admin, who detects and bans cheaters frequently. – No more fun
An uncompleted list of high ranked players who regularly or randomly use cheats imho:

LUSTADIK
Trigger
KOZ@K
IrGeNdJeMaNd[AUT]
Jednoruky bandita
Raeuber Fotzenglotz
SyrinXeno[AUT]
simmi
N??by.eXe
O drugishe Cr@sh
Cyberb!tch

Setti, pls take care of your servers and admins.

Sorry for skillfree ownage
maybe we meet again some time
snoopl

So better start to check other players.

[Perplexer]

Ah the wallhack. It will always be very hard to spot on a careful cheater. But then again, cheater who is careful with his WH also has less advantage and less fun. He constantly has to be careful how he shoots because he is affraid a dead regular or dead admin is spectating him. And with 50% of his mind being concentrated on being careful, he will play bad and also have less fun. And because of that, chances are that he will sooner or later be discovered or just give up, like that last cheater "snoopl" who complained that it wasn't fun anymore because of the hacks. No shit, idiot, lol.

Even harder to spot than wallhack is radarhack. If you want to cheat, use that. With that, you don't have to worry you will prefire too perfectly. You can't see through a wall but you can see the approximate position on the radar and that will make you appear like a non-WHer but with the same knowledge of enemy position. I don't think RH can be spotted. Then there's fullbright, healthbars, skins, models. I am pretty sure we are playing with some people / regulars on Setti who are using some of that. Passive cheats like that are just impossible to see.

About the videos ....... considering what I just wrote, I can't say whether he was cheating or not. The possibility for either being true is the same. But, I would like to comment on that "zbang on the right side" encounter. As others already mentioned, you can see him starting to move his crosshair back to the left after he looks to the right. That could be consistent with a quick right glance to check for the enemy around corners. I do that a lot and sometimes I turn back so fast that I even continue turning left and for another 270 degrees to complete a full turn and attack the enemy like that. The other possibility which many people don't consider is the possibility of continuous encounters. You watched only one round of this game on YouTube. In reality, he could have been going on this path for 10 rounds, one after another, and perhaps on 7 rounds the enemy was there. So logically he will automatically look there. From the video we can't see that.

Some other instances do look suspicious but I don't know. Maybe I am suspicious in exactly the same way when I play. I played with some random nicknames for the last few days and there were many people who said I wallhacked. Some admins even went to spectate me but I guess I messed up too many situations so I never got banned.

Anyway, don't ask me for opinions because I don't have any. There's noone for whom I'll say "he doesn't cheat". As far as I'm concerned, you all could be cheating. I just didn't catch you yet. I will not set the ban just yet. But then again I will not remove any bans other admins set either. That is my policy. I guess you can try and escalate this to an admin vote where the majority would decide but we never actually had that before so I don't know if it would work at all.

[LemmingGrumpy]

I have already mentioned that I won't oppose anyone removing his ban. The reason is that this is the first permban that I give without an absolute "smoking gun" evidence, but rather on the basis of supporting evidence seen in a large number of occasions.

He won't play with me, however, as I firmly believe he is dirty.

[SyrinXeno]

But I wash myself regularly

Seriously now, where do you still find any evidence, I explained everything. If I watch all your demos, use r_drawothermodels 2 to playback them, with settings like removing shadows, cut the parts I need and upload it on youtube, you will also look like a cheater! Anyone would, but does it prove anything? I offered you to make a live gameplay video of me, to show you that I'm just a rather good player, but you wouldn't accept it. So why should I have to prove that I don't cheat when it's not even proven I do? Didn't I play long enough on Setti, ban and report enough cheaters and made clear how I feel about them, to be treated with a little more respect and "trust"?

The fairest would be to unban me yourself Lemming. Let me play on Main server and bring you the "smoking gun" evidence you need, even though I know it won't happen. I can live with not playing with you, just kick me in that case, but don't make another headadmin rectify your mistake and maybe admit that you banned too early due to the false image a not veridic youtube video gave you.

[Henk]

In my opinion there are a few parts in the demo's that really look like if SyrinXeno is wallhacking and i would have agreed with banning him by just looking at those vids.
But there are parts where he just seems like a normal player and where it all looks like routine actions.
Also i find it very 'weird' that he puts a lot of effort in trying to let people know that he doesn't cheat. It shows that he likes to play on setti and a normal cheater would not put this much effort in trying to ''set things straight''.
My mind says ban him but my heart says no.
Henk out.